Curse

Eleeta Rainbow · Dec 18, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

*******I am aware this is in the index of suggested ideas, however i believe my concept is way more thorough and fair to the game than the example given. Also i plan to keep this front page up to date if this thread does get popular, so as not to make people read 30 pages for revised ideas.******

Wouldn't it be cool to bring some of your other PvE chars with you as Heroes? The idea just struck me to be honest.

How it would work, is there would be a quest at the Eye of the North outpost and a practically identical quest outside of the Sunspear Outpost given by Artificer Mullenix/Lonai. The gist would be you attempting to get more help from other heroes from different lands, which is similar to other quests in the game. All you would have to do is step outside into Command Post/Ice Cliff Chasms where you see one of your random PvE characters talking with Dunkoro/Ogden while the rest are just hanging out. The quest is just a short dialogue between the two. I was thinking it could go something like this:

Dunkoro/Ogden: Oh there you are <insertplayername>. We need as much help as we can fighting Abaddon/the Destroyers.

<insertplayername>: We're here to help you with anything you might need. It is our jobs as heroes anyway. Your wish is our command.

Dunkoro/Ogden: Thank the Gods. As the days pass, Abbadon's servants/the Destroyers are getting more powerful. We really are struggling.

<insertplayername>: Do not worry. With us as your new allies, your battles will soon be over with. What do you need us to do?

Dunkoro/Ogden: I have the perfect idea. <yourcharacter>, accept the aid of our new adventurers to help us in our quest to defeat Abaddon/the Destroyers. They will certainly come in handy, I have no doubt.

Then you talk to Dunkoro/Ogden and receive your reward which would be to make all of your current lvl 20 PvE chars available as heroes.

This is how I'm seeing it work.

When your PvE chars join you as heroes, it transfers their current armor and their current weapon/offhand to your new character. Now, of course there would be limitations.

1) You cannot salvage any mods from your weapons or armor, only change it by using a new mod.

2) All weapons are customized for you and are worth 0 gold at the merchant. Same goes for armor.

Also, before you accept the reward there will be a huge warning in big ol' classic GW fashion warning players that it will transfer all Currently Equipped armor and weapons to your Pve heroes. This is so you can get on all of your current PvE chars and change them to how you see fit before their armor is permanently set into that character as a hero (You can switch out their weapons like normal Heroes, so those are unaffected).

In order to avoid confusion while in an instanced area, your Pve heroes names will have the word Hero in brackets next to their name, e.g

[Hero] Eleeta Rainbow

Now, why should Anet go through all of this trouble?

1) It would be hella sick, number 1.

2) Creates a more unique experience besides the same boring Heroes; seeing other peoples chars.

3) Creates more Heroes in general.

4) New hero team combinations for Hero Battles/PvE in general.

You might also say, "but this might discourage use of the Heroes already in game"

1) I doubt there are MORE than a couple hundred people with 9 PvE characters, one from each profession, and all lvl 20, which is the only way that argument could even slightly be valid.

2) So O___o???

You might be thinking, "What if I create another PvE char after that?"
Well, my solution is quite simple. First off, only your PvE chars that are lvl 20 are eligible to become heroes. The requirement to start this quest is to have at least one other lvl 20 PvE character on your account. After you have completed your quest, all you have to do is speak to either Mullenix or Lonai and ask them to register a new eligible PvE character. Then they'll ask you if you are sure and warn you about the permanent armor transfer and voila, new character as a Hero. It would work just like registering Polymock pieces.

Also, all currently equipped skills and spells will be transfered also (except title track skills/spells).

Obviously once you do one of the quests the other one would be disabled as there would be no point in doing it a second time.

And one more thing, you cannot have yourself as a hero. Like my monk Eleeta Rainbow can't have Eleeta Rainbow the Hero.

Comments:

Quote:

- Disable PvE Skills on Character Heroes.

Talked about this already. Pve skills would be unavailable to account heroes.

Quote:

Not sure if the title grind should be allowed to be shared across characters for some things. Probably not though (but it'd be nice if it did~)

The Hero and your actual char will be completely seperate.

Quote:

No PvP Characters can become heroes. Instant Level 20 Heroes is bad.

Yeah of course. I forgot to mention that, and just to be clear for everyone, PVE CHARS ONLY.

Pocketmancer · Dec 18, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Considering how boring things already are, I'll /sign this despite the imbalance it'll cause.

Only a few things:
- Disable PvE Skills on Character Heroes.
- Not sure if the title grind should be allowed to be shared across characters for some things. Probably not though (but it'd be nice if it did~).
- Experience gain does not affect Character Hero because that'd be an extremely cheap way to level up some characters (easy Legendary Defender of Ascalon anyone?) for titles undeserved otherwise. *EDIT* OOPS! Didn't read your suggestion for level 20 heroes only. Ignore this.
- No PvP Characters can become heroes. Instant Level 20 Heroes is bad.

The main reason I'm in support of this is because I'd like to have a third Paragon hero already and possibly a third Ritualist and Assassin hero.

You may have to flesh out the idea a bit more though before the /unsign-ing I-Don't-Want-Guild-Wars-To-Be-Easy-Mode trolls come in.

---------------

Also, this may be a nice way for some Prophecies and Factions-only players to get heroes to use. I always felt Nightfall was a bit too advantageous over the other campaigns.

Eleeta Rainbow · Dec 18, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

- Disable PvE Skills on Character Heroes.

Talked about this already

Quote:

Not sure if the title grind should be allowed to be shared across characters for some things. Probably not though (but it'd be nice if it did~)

You're right, I should flesh out more. The Hero and your actual char will be completely seperate.

Quote:

Experience gain does not affect Character Hero because that'd be an extremely cheap way to level up some characters (easy Legendary Defender of Ascalon anyone?) for titles undeserved otherwise. *EDIT* OOPS! Didn't read your suggestion for level 20 heroes only. Ignore this.

Lol you caught yourself.

Quote:

No PvP Characters can become heroes. Instant Level 20 Heroes is bad.

Yeah of course. I forgot to mention that, and just to be clear for everyone, PVE CHARS ONLY.

MStarfire · Dec 18, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleeta Rainbow

Thoughts?

Severe, almost scathing indifference.

It has been suggested before. If not here then on that other fansite. There were a number of good reasons against it.

ac1inferno · Dec 18, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Instead of this, I rather have access to heroes that my other PvE characters have.

Eleeta Rainbow · Dec 18, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Instead of this, I rather have access to heroes that my other PvE characters have.

Nah, then you would just have to get Razah once. LAME :P

Raul the Rampant · Dec 18, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

This is kind of an interesting idea, but it seems pretty unnecessary to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleeta Rainbow

Now, why should Anet go through all of this trouble?

1) It would be hella sick, number 1.

2) Creates a more unique experience besides the same boring Heroes; seeing other peoples chars.

3) Creates more Heroes in general.

4) New hero team combinations for Hero Battles/PvE in general.

I don't think they should because:

1) Mmmm, maybe, but I doubt it... personal preference, and there are plenty of other things I'd rather see first.

2) I dont' really think so. Instead of seeing the same old heroes that (mostly) look distinct from the the player base (most of them have armor sets not accessible to players) you'll see tons of monks and warriors in obsidian armor + chaos gloves + glasses all dyed black etc. (assuming anyone still uses a hero that isn't a necro). People already complain that everyone looks the same on here all the time, so adding heroes that look identical to what they're complaining about won't get much support. Also, "seeing other peoples' chars" may not be all that applicable because a) if you're using heroes you're probably not using people (or maybe one other... usually someone you know since nobody PUGs anymore), and b) the only time you see heroes that aren't in your group would be on observer mode for HB or a rare GvG/HA match. So either nobody sees the changes (which makes this unnecessary) or people do see it and complain (like I already mentioned). Seems like a lose-lose situation.

3) There's plenty of heroes already, most of which never get used (again, these days it's mostly just necros)... read any thread about M.O.X. and you'll see that most players agree. Maybe if instead of adding to the list of heroes that never get used players could replace a hero they already have I'd be more receptive to this.

4) The combinations aren't really new though. This does not add any new professions or skills to the list of ones the already existing heroes can use... all it does is increase the variety of names in the party window. If that's what you're after just ask for an option to rename your heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocketmancer

The main reason I'm in support of this is because I'd like to have a third Paragon hero already and possibly a third Ritualist and Assassin hero.

Replacing an already existing hero would prevent this, but I don't think having 3 rits or assassins would have much of an impact... there's nothing a rit hero can do that a n/rt can't, and the assassin AI is such that these heroes aren't really that useful anyway. A third paragon might not be good though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocketmancer

No PvP Characters can become heroes. Instant Level 20 Heroes is bad.

All of the ones from EotN are instantly level 20 so the damage has already been done in that regard.

Still, I say it's all unnecessary.

/not signed

Pocketmancer · Dec 18, 2008, 07:22 AM // 07:22

There's a lot of boredom coming from running the same builds over and over again. It's mostly the reason why I do something other than running Necroway with AP-YMLAD-FH build. The obsessive compulsive side to my personality just wants three usable heroes for every class so I can experiment, laugh at the failure, and go back to my six-hero-one-active-player AFKway build as I vanquish HM on another character. Fair enough?

---------

Though the other thing PvP characters do that can break the system is that they have access to all the skills and items unlocked on your account. They can produce for themselves perfectly modded weapons, armours with free runes and insignias, and the most important thing of all for PvE'ers, dye their armour for free (OMG).

Eleeta Rainbow · Dec 18, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

1) Mmmm, maybe, but I doubt it... personal preference, and there are plenty of other things I'd rather see first.

My first point is just based ON personal preference. It might not you, but the idea of having your own PvE chars as heroes is an appealing idea to many.

Quote:

2) I dont' really think so. Instead of seeing the same old heroes that (mostly) look distinct from the the player base (most of them have armor sets not accessible to players) you'll see tons of monks and warriors in obsidian armor + chaos gloves + glasses all dyed black etc. (assuming anyone still uses a hero that isn't a necro). People already complain that everyone looks the same on here all the time, so adding heroes that look identical to what they're complaining about won't get much support. Also, "seeing other peoples' chars" may not be all that applicable because a) if you're using heroes you're probably not using people (or maybe one other... usually someone you know since nobody PUGs anymore), and b) the only time you see heroes that aren't in your group would be on observer mode for HB or a rare GvG/HA match. So either nobody sees the changes (which makes this unnecessary) or people do see it and complain (like I already mentioned). Seems like a lose-lose situation.

TBH people still do PuG. I still see it for major missions and elite missions, and people have brought in their heroes. Running w/ heroes doesn't necessarily always mean 3 heroes per person. And honestly, I doubt that everyone is sick of everyone looking the same. That's kind of a dumb argument. I highly doubt if anyone saw someone use one of their pve heroes that happened to be rich they would complain, and if they did than they are 1) in the minority, and 2) have problems and need to get over it.

Quote:

3) There's plenty of heroes already, most of which never get used (again, these days it's mostly just necros)... read any thread about M.O.X. and you'll see that most players agree. Maybe if instead of adding to the list of heroes that never get used players could replace a hero they already have I'd be more receptive to this.

Quote:

4) The combinations aren't really new though. This does not add any new professions or skills to the list of ones the already existing heroes can use... all it does is increase the variety of names in the party window. If that's what you're after just ask for an option to rename your heroes.

3 and 4 kind of go together. It creates more combinations in a sense that
1) You can dedicate more heroes to a certain build (runes, etc), instead of just having 12/12/3.

2) and more kinds of Heroes can lead to different team build possibilities just be sheer number.

Owik Gall · Dec 18, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I won't lie. I would like something like this to take form. However, there are a lot of things wrong with it. For the most part, it takes a lot more effort to get characters from your account as heroes. Even if you are limited, there's still the trouble of armor skins. Over all, the personalized pve heroes your suggesting is way too unique for the hero concept to allow. Not even in GW2 I believe will be able to pull this off. There's a lot of technical labor that is too much for them to bother. I'm afraid this won't work. Better just suggest what kind of heroes do you want for GW2 that doesn't involve this idea.

/not signed.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 18, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Not sure if this was brought up as I didn't read through everything - nearly 2 am here, getting tired - but:

1) You cannot unlock outposts on your character heroes.

2) You cannot use heroes in towns your other characters have not been two - exception of running there. (optional)

3) Deaths do count with your character heroes - this prevents farming Survivor (I noticed it was said that a requirement was to be level 20 - that means get to level 20, then use your character as a hero to get to r3 - thats a no no).

Raul the Rampant · Dec 18, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocketmancer

There's a lot of boredom coming from running the same builds over and over again. It's mostly the reason why I do something other than running Necroway with AP-YMLAD-FH build. The obsessive compulsive side to my personality just wants three usable heroes for every class so I can experiment, laugh at the failure, and go back to my six-hero-one-active-player AFKway build as I vanquish HM on another character. Fair enough?

Sorry, wasn't trying to flame you or anything, just adding my thoughts on the subject using that quote as a pretext (like I did below). I have nothing against variety, as I futz myself... I just don't think more than a small minority ever does experiment like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocketmancer

Though the other thing PvP characters do that can break the system is that they have access to all the skills and items unlocked on your account. They can produce for themselves perfectly modded weapons, armours with free runes and insignias, and the most important thing of all for PvE'ers, dye their armour for free (OMG).

Again, nothing personal, but all heroes automatically have access to any skill (elite or not) unlocked on the account so actually the heroes produced under this idea would be at a disadvantage in that regard. The free runes and weapons might make up for this, but so long as they can't be salvaged it wouldn't break the system that much more... though you could make these like the other heroes and have them come with no runes or perfect weapons initially. That way the characters would look identical without getting the advantages. You have a point on the dye thing perhaps, but black isn't one of the choices you get for free and that would be the majority of what people are after I would guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleeta Rainbow

My first point is just based ON personal preference.

As is mine... I thought I made that clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleeta Rainbow

TBH people still do PuG. I still see it for major missions and elite missions, and people have brought in their heroes. Running w/ heroes doesn't necessarily always mean 3 heroes per person.

Using "never" was a bad idea. Still, I'd bet the majority still don't PUG and do use 3 heroes. I base this assumption largely from what is to be found in here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleeta Rainbow

And honestly, I doubt that everyone is sick of everyone looking the same. That's kind of a dumb argument. I highly doubt if anyone saw someone use one of their pve heroes that happened to be rich they would complain, and if they did than they are 1) in the minority, and 2) have problems and need to get over it.

This thread, this thread, and this thread all beg to differ. Plenty of people complain and they're not going to get over it. There's more if you look for them. Maybe you think it's dumb, but then we're back to personal opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleeta Rainbow

3 and 4 {of my (Raul) previous post} kind of go together. It creates more combinations in a sense that
1) You can dedicate more heroes to a certain build (runes, etc), instead of just having 12/12/3.

2) and more kinds of Heroes can lead to different team build possibilities just be sheer number.

For runes this may be valid, but for skill combinations we already have the template system for quick and easy wholesale changes. Adding more heroes to essentially provide an alternative to clicking 3 times seems like a lot of work for not a ton of benefit. That also sums up my thoughts on this idea in general. Had this been the initial method of introducing heroes I would have been fine with it, but now that we already have them I don't see the need.

newbie_of_doom · Dec 18, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

would be amazingly epic though all my pve charactars are bad heroes

silavor · Dec 18, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Not sure if this was brought up as I didn't read through everything - nearly 2 am here, getting tired - but:

1) You cannot unlock outposts on your character heroes.

2) You cannot use heroes in towns your other characters have not been two - exception of running there. (optional)

3) Deaths do count with your character heroes - this prevents farming Survivor (I noticed it was said that a requirement was to be level 20 - that means get to level 20, then use your character as a hero to get to r3 - thats a no no).

If I'm reading the OP correctly, these character heroes are COPIES of your original pve characters, NOT the actual character itself.

assassin shaun · Dec 18, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

i think this would be a great idea, it would give more combinations of heroes to be used
/signed *100000

Capua · Dec 18, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by silavor

If I'm reading the OP correctly, these character heroes are COPIES of your original pve characters, NOT the actual character itself.

If that's the case then /signed
I was with Azazel because yeah, seems like a horribly easy way to farm survivor.

VinnyRidira · Dec 18, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

We have far to many heroes already without adding another 11 of them. I would rather prefer having heroes account wide and they get unlocked when you get to the area where you first obtain them. Razah only once you have finished Nightfall and you have unchained him. He is the least used of all my heroes across 12 characters. I also suggest that each hero should have an innate trait or ability, kind of like Souske who always seems to be gungho even if you have him in "guard" or "dove" mode.

zelgadissan · Dec 18, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Sure, I'll /sign - but only if I can put other copies of myself up in the Fellowship section of the HoM

Besides, it'd force me to make sure all my characters actually have the best equipment instead of just crap that works.

tauntedflail · Dec 18, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

The one thing I would say is that you've made this way more complicated than it should be.
Just make it so that when you add a hero that is already one of your characters to your team, it gets added with the armor that character is currently wearing. (So say I have a mesmer wearing elite enchanters armor and then I add that mesmer to my party as a hero whilst playing my assassin, my mesmer hero would appear wearing the elite enchanters.) And then thats it, you dont need to make the armors values change or customise or anything, just make it have the same properties as all hero armor.

Same with the skills. Whats the point in transefering the skills over like that? Just make skills work the same as all other heros. Dont worry about the fact my your heros could then use skills they normaly wouldnt be able to. Whoever honestly thinks thats a problem is just playing devils advocate, no one should care.

I'm signing. It would just be really cool. Though perhaps it would be nice to impose a limit to it in some way.
People would probably complain there would be too many heroes available after this.... so what if you made it so that you can only ever add one 'character hero' at a time, but thats IN ADDITION to the three regular heros we get.
So that way people will be using the current ones just as much, get to use their cool character heros at the same time AND the people who want more heros at once will be happy aswell.
Hell, why not label the 'character heros' as 'companions' while you're at it - get people buzzing about guildwars two at the same time.
Thats four great things you could do with that kind of update.
/signed

EDIT: For all those people still complaining that there would be too much choice for heroes to pick from.
Not everyone has 21 characters that are PvE with FoW. Infact about 80% of players wont have ever bought an extra character slot. About 30% of us left playing wont have all the campaigns and EoTN either. And of all the people who do, most will have at the very least one PVP char (usually two).
So most people will get at max, six more heroes to choose from. Not much at all.

JASON626 · Dec 18, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I'd like to have heroes be like PvP characters rune them up that way and weapons selection. Unlocked = available for hero. I mean 10 characters available and each having to get them decent for PvE is just silly.